Talk:Hydra (Earth-61311)
Hand Are there enough references about the relationship between The Hand and The Spear to keep information about Hand in this page? I personally think that The Hand had not any relation with the original Brotherhood of the Spear, but those relations started with the modern Hydra when it was directed by the Original Supreme Hydra first and then by Baron Strucker. Any thoughts? PS: This page and other related pages that you (Undoniel) are working on are very good works! Keep on this excellent project! :) Duellante magic (talk) 20:02, April 27, 2017 (UTC) :First of all, thanks! For now, I prefer to keep it there as far as I haven't confirmed enough stuff in everyone's origins.Undoniel (talk) 20:25, April 27, 2017 (UTC) Name? So I just read through Hickman's S.H.I.E.L.D. and the vaguely referenced other brotherhood isn't ever named. Has the ancient precursor to the modern Hydra ever been called the Brotherhood of the Spear? Because it seems to me that this whole article is named based solely on an assumption. Side note, this page is a mess and is unappealing to look at. --Nurdboy42 (talk) 23:55, May 21, 2017 (UTC) :On the name, it's been a while I've been intending to re-read everything to find it (and a while since I added the citation tag), but I haven't found time to yet. The internet uses it, but the internet also want Gambit to be an Omega-level mutant, Cyclops to be a beta-level mutant and Wolverine to be the coolest character ever made, so... I will have a look as soon as possible. If we can't find "brotherhood of the spear", "spear" is the more used alias. :And yep, the page is a mess, mostly because I haven't taken care of the aesthetics now, I've focused myself on gathering information. When more material will be found or published, maybe we'll be able to go forward on the look of the page, but that's not my primary concern on the wikia right now. As I said, it's a work in progress, with a framework made of elements who are directly related (Hydra and Spear), and some less (Hydra, Thule). I can promise it will look better soon, as soon as more material will come out, which is likely with the current Secret Empire event (and I expect that hopefully those numerous issues that brought new material will be a key to understand some of Hickman's S.H.I.E.L.D. stories).Undoniel (talk) 19:36, May 22, 2017 (UTC) ::Well this is interesting. As part of the promotional campaign for Secret Empire, Marvel has been running a series of articles about the history of Hydra. The first one uses the name Brotherhood of the Spear and mentions the (unreferenced) claim that a race of alien reptiles was involved in the earliest origins of Hydra, a claim I had to hide on the Hydra page due to doubts of accuracy. ::What I think happened is whoever wrote the article came here or Wikipedia, and just took what was already written at face value and didn't bother to fact check. As such, I don't think the article should be used as a reference. --Nurdboy42 (talk) 06:47, May 23, 2017 (UTC) :::Approved. As we don't the degree of officiality of those, I will simply use them as a source of references, but not use their way to present the facts or the gaps filled in it. I believe Secret Empire and Captain America: Steve Rogers are the only series who will make us truly go forward at the moment.Undoniel (talk) 09:01, May 23, 2017 (UTC) Hand origins If I recall correctly, there was this miniseries that talked about the origins of the Hand called Elektra: The Hand Vol 1. It took place in feudal Japan and you might wanna take a look at it for clues. Any way, great job you’ve done with the page so far. Diegoshi (talk) 3:01, June 1, 2017 (UTC) :That was actually my next planned acquisition after Hail Hydra (and my morning acquisition). :Thanks, but the page still look like a mess, I hope Secret Empire will give enough material to help go towards a clear move between Thule, Hydra and Spear merger or remaining apart.Undoniel (talk) 08:42, June 1, 2017 (UTC) ::Great book, but it only gave us (another) origin of the Hand, without relating to the other groups. ::I also believe there might be an interest in Elektra Root of Evil Vol 1.Undoniel (talk) 10:43, June 1, 2017 (UTC) :::After checking wikipedia, I tend to think that Elektra Root of Evil is the connection (though the Snakeroot) between the Sickly Ones, adorators of the Beast (Demon) (Earth-616) and the modern Hand (1590-now) (and possibly the 800-years old Hydra mentioned but unreferenced both on wikia and wikipedia). Either than the relation between Gorgon, Hydra and the Beast, that wouldn't be much a step, but since I've been starting from nothing, that would be a great step.Undoniel (talk) 23:14, June 1, 2017 (UTC) Secret Empire: Fake memories? I would suggest against including information from Captain America current (Secret Empire underway) memories with the other facts. The Cosmic Cube rewrote him, but not the whole reality. And even if that were the case, they are going to be reverted soon. Wouldn´t it be better to put it in another separate section? Yawmoght (talk) 21:29, June 9, 2017 (UTC) :I agree to wait until the event ends. Not everything is entirely clear, and knowing Nick Spencer, not even everything show is what it seems. --The ADour-incible ADour (talk) 01:24, June 10, 2017 (UTC) ::That problem is already mentioned in the 4th line of the page. ::As ADour says, we will wait, because currently, Hydra-Cap's story could be true, and everyone else false. No certainty it will be reverted (I hope it will not, because that would just be completely unoriginal for Marvel to do so). The main point in that theory is the existence of Elisa Sinclair (but she could be a Kobik-created being). And no doubt the character (in case you haven't read it yet) appearing in the end of Secret Empire #2 will be a key to this problem as well. So, wait and see. Undoniel (talk) 06:59, June 10, 2017 (UTC)